Bernie Bots don't know what they're voting for

Getting rid if for profit universities, as knowledge should not be a profit center. It should be no-cost. When you dial in at-cost numbers, it’s significantly lower.

I have no answer of where the money is coming from as these topics have no interest to me. I haven’t looked into them.

I do care. It all has to be paid for.

We could pay for UHC just by rolling back the Trump tax cuts

Those tax cuts were put on the country’s credit card, though i don’t disagree with rolling them back.

Payments on our debt are taking a larger and larger portion of the country’s yearly budget.

Sorry, forgot the snark indicator. The main thing about UHC is yes, our taxes will go up, but if we get a lot of hte for-profit gouging out, the overall cost may very well not be higher to you and me than it is now. I will not have job-related health plan deductions, so my net should go up. The HC rise in my taxes will probably be commensurate as long as the system loses its profit-driven portion, which would allow it to extend to folks who can’t afford what I can to contribute. May not be a wash, and shouldn’t be for the over-a-million types anyway.

Unfortunately, you’re not accounting for moral hazard. The more insured people are, especially if they’re “not paying for it”, the more they go to the dr.

A friend of mine was having a bad stomach ache, he convinced himself something terrible was happening to him. Instead of waiting to see what happened, he goes to Kaiser. He complains so much they do xrays, and a CT scan. Nothing was detected. Later that evening he’s decided it was gas or whatever.

Abdominal ct scans according to google, range from $540 to $850.

Care will have to be managed regardless. I don’t think we should be flippant about the actual changes that need to happen.

Anyway, I think Bernie is going to lose the nomination, so why argue with you guys about it. I don’t believe in him and don’t have to. Just like you guys don’t have to agree with me.

He’s a charlatan and I know it.

How do you balance this moral hazard with the fact that there are people who SHOULD but CANNOT AFFORD to go see a doctor? Two sides of the same coin

I don’t know. The problem is our culture. We’re an individualistic culture and getting moreso by the day.

Healthcare is a pie, the more some eat, the fewer slices left for everyone else.

We’ve always been individualistic, since WWII. It’s why we favor our cars and tend to not build efficient public transit. AFAIK the only decent ones in America are Chicago, NYC and DC. Certainly not in the SF Bay area.

So, how do we address this underlying problem?

Don’t know if we do, it’s ingrained culture. Same reason we can’t seem to handle the gun issues. As long as we can’t balance the needs of the many and the needs of the one, we will lean towards the one, I’ve got mine and fuck you.

Kaiser Permanente is one of the largest nonprofit healthcare plans in the United States, with over 12 million members. It perates 39 hospitals and more than 700 medical offices, with nearly 300,000 personnel, including over 80,000 physicians and nurses.

Each Permanente Medical Group operates as a separate for-profit partnership or professional corporation in its individual territory, and while none publicly reports its financial results, each is primarily funded by reimbursements from its respective regional Kaiser Foundation Health Plan entity. KFHP is one of the largest not-for-profit organizations in the United States.

@Oak …How many Kaiser families do you imagine we’re talking about here?

I know who Kaiser is better than the average American. It started in the Bay Area.

But you don’t believe that people are ignorant about actual policy? I do.

But isn’t the answer to ignorance, education, rather than rejecting improvements?

Sure, but isn’t that Bernie’s responsibility to actually explain his policies and the ramifications?

He just says that same damn thing over and over. Just like Trump. Sound bites…Corporations, blah, blah, blah…

Evidently not, in the Age of Trump.

Right…that’s the way to go, Trump’s.

Half of the country’s voters are NOT requiring their savior to “explain their policies and the ramifications.” And they probably know at some level that he has very little clue what those policies are, and no interest in said ramifications.

So why are you holding Bernie to a significantly different standard? Do you think a continuation of the Trump presidency is preferable to shitcanning it and bringing Bernie in?

I don’t care about Trumpster voters, they are beyond a lost cause. I would hope that people voting for Bernie would be different than those voting for Trump.

But apparently they may be more alike, in their behaviors, if not beliefs. Bernie Bros are really starting to get called out for their caustic attitude toward those that support other candidates - they go far as campaign workers doxxing people they’re annoyed with.

Sounds like something a Trumpster would also do…and have done.

I think this country needs to learn its lesson about socialism. If he wins, fine. Then Trump will definitely win again.